Recently two pleasant ladies came to our door. They were Jehovah’s Witnesses. I immediately I told them I was a pastor so as not to pretend that I was ignorant of the Bible and then to suddenly surprise them. They were still interested in talking to me, although I could tell they did change gears. They gave me a book and asked to visit with me again. The book was titled, What the Bible Really Teaches. I did read it and I want to respond quickly to a number of issues. I divide them into Samaritan issues and essential issues.
Samaritan issues are inspired by Jesus’ conversation with the woman at the well. When the conversation became too personal, the Samaritan woman tried to divert the conversation into a debate about where true worship should take place. Jehovah’s Witnesses do this in a number of ways but I will only mention a few. JW’s claim that Jesus was crucified not on a cross but on a sake. Part of their reason is to avoid the “idolatry” of “false” Christians who decorate their homes and bodies with crosses. Although historical and archaelogical evidence support the translation of “cross,” it is safe to say that God will not decide our eternal fate by how many planks we thought were used on Good Friday. JWs also believe it is wrong to celebrate holidays. They do not mention that Jesus celebrated both biblical and nonbiblical holidays. They object to the pagan origins of holidays. In this they include New Years, even though Rosh Hashanah is New Years, although at a different time. As for pagan origins, our days and months often go back to pagan worship. January and March come from the Roman gods Janus and Mars. Wednesday and Thursday come from the Teutonic gods Woden and Thor. Do we stop using those as well? What we must remember is that these arguments have more sociological than theological value. They serve as identity markers to separate JWs from the heathen masses.
More important than these are issues like the identity of Jesus. They see Jesus and Michael the archangel as the same being. This, even though the first chapters of Hebrews go to great lengthes to argue that Jesus is greater than any angel. They reject the Trinity as it is not mentioned in the Bible. Canon, omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence are words not mentioned in the Bible but they accept those concepts. By making Jesus a god and not God they are going against the Jewish concept of monotheism, a belief that Jesus explicitly endorsed. Orthodox Christians affirm there is only one God but that he is Father, Son and Spirit. They can argue that the Trinity was created by a corrupt church council. Do they realise that the same people who developed the description of the Trinity also defined the canon? Our first canonical list of all 66 books comes from Athanasius, one of the greatest defenders of the orthodox view of the deity of Christ. If they are wrong on the Trinity, were they wrong with the canon of 66 books as well? JWs also believe that people cease to exist at death and then much later God chooses to resurrect them. They are correct in their emphasis on the resurrection but incorrect on the end of existence at death. There are numerous descriptions of shades of the deceased in Sheol and in 1 Samuel 28, the shade of Samuel is contacted and communicated with. Jesus told the thief on the cross that they would be in Paradise that day and we see the souls of the martyrs in Revelation calling out to God before the resurrection. As for the name Jehovah, that is an acceptable although not preferrable form of the Hebrew YHWH. It is fine to use that but what they neglect to tell people is that the New Testament never uses the name Jehovah. In fact the New Testament is unanimous that the name by which people are saved is Jesus.
I plan to work through this in greater detail at a later date. But for the moment, my advice, if you are encountering Jehovah’s Witnesses is to avoid the Samaritan issues and focus on the essentials. That is what Jesus did with the woman at the well.
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31 responses so far ↓
Janette // April 5, 2008 at 3:31 pm |
Looking forward to the rest of the story!
Pam // April 5, 2008 at 8:28 pm |
Let me assure you, “pastor”, that any experienced Witness of Jehovah is equipped to handle conversations with the like of you. We look forward to it! We are not-in the least- bullied by anyone who titles himself “father”, “reverend”, “Doctor”, or the like. Your knowledge is really shallow. so many examples in this one article . Just a few: Jesus is clearly the archanel, Michael [meaning CHIEF of the angels] Our scriptural references in the “Teach” book prove that clearly…Next: Where in the BIBLE does it say Jesus celebrated “holidays”? He was Jewish; therefore he was-by the Mosaic Law-obligated to celebrate it with all Jews. He specifically commanded his disciples to commemorate his death, which true Christians do ’til this day. A basic encyclopaedia will aid you to see how pagan the origins of most “holiday” deemed christian are. The HOLY God oof the Bible is not going to bless such disgusting customs invented by those who disdain His worship. Next, regarding the use of the cross: Use of the cross long ante-dates Christianity. Have you read your encyclopaedia lately on the subject? These are but a few, sir. I suggest in your next instalation, you might reference with scripture if you are going to attack us.
Stephen Bedard // April 5, 2008 at 10:12 pm |
I have no intention of attacking or bullying anyone. My intention with the pastor remark is that it would be unfair of me to pretend to be ignorant of the Bible when in fact I can read Greek and Hebrew, have studied the Jewish context of the New Testament and have read the Bible numerous times. I do not want to be dishonest. As for biblical references, I would be happy to add them. Regarding holidays, holidays are literally holy days and so Jesus did celebrate holidays. You did not comment on New Years being biblical even if the date has been changed. As for biblical holy days, please comment on John 10:22 where Jesus celebrates the Feast of Celebration (today called Hannukah), a non-biblical holiday. Please also comment on the importance of the name Jehovah and why it does not appear in the New Testament. These are not attacks, but my attempt at conversation between two interpretations of the Bible.
Alex Reynolds // April 17, 2008 at 12:42 am |
Wow, Pam please take a deep breath and re-read what you’re typing before you hit ‘Submit’. Firstly I don’t understand why you call what Mr Bedard wrote as bullying. At no time does he attack the two Witnesses, in fact he refers to them as ‘pleasant’. I am a former member of your religion and I believe I can safely say that your response would not be the one an Elder would approve of. But of course that is only my opinion. Some further points –
You suggest that he ‘reference with scripture’ yet at no time do you do this. Stating “Our scriptural references in the “Teach” book prove that clearly” doesn’t help the interested readers of this article, those who most likely do not have access to the “Teach’ book. So where in the bible does it state that Jesus is the archangel Michael? How is this ‘clear’? Let me help you – maybe referencing 1 Thessalonians 4:16, where it says (referring to Jesus) “Because the Lord himself will descend from Heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice.” The letter of Jude verse 9, states: “But when Michael the Archangel……” By using the word ‘the’ Jude is clarifying there is only one archangel. So comparing the two scriptures leads to the conclusion that Michael and Jesus are the same being. You could also point out that the term ‘archangel’ only ever occurs in the bible in the singular, never in the plural. Of course neither of these points ‘prove’ anything. It is all open to debate and interpretation.
Also, at no point does Mr Bedard state that there are no pagan origins to holidays celebrated in modern times. In fact the only holiday he mentions is New Years Day, and when you call him on it he then gives you Hannukah – with a biblical reference! Yes a large number of supposed ‘christian’ holdays/celebrations have ‘pagan’ origins. But does that make them ‘disgusting’? Lets consider Birthdays. When I questioned an Elder why we didnt celebrate birthdays I was told that it was because the step-daughter of Herod, Salome, was given the head of John the Baptist as a birthday present. Do the actions of a single person dictate that a practice is bad? I really don’t feel that a loving and caring holy father God would be so disgusted at the celebration of a new life, a child of god, coming into the world. Once again, only my opinion.
Lastly, regarding your attack on the use of the cross. Yes the use of the cross symbol predates Christianity, but so what? Mr Bedard makes mention of the act of crucifixion but you seem to gloss over that. Were you perhaps intending to say that the act of crucifixion pre-dates christianity? If so then unfortunately the very encyclopaedias you seem to use as proof disagree with you – ‘Method of capital punishment among the Persians, Seleucids, Jews, Carthaginians, and Romans from about the 6th century BC to the 4th century AD
(http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9361947)
compared to – Christianity: ‘Religion stemming from the teachings of Jesus in the 1st century AD’ (http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9360716).
Pam i sincerely hope you don’t take my response as a personal attack. As I have stated these are my opinions. I would be very interested in your response. Thanyou.
Alex Reynolds // April 17, 2008 at 12:54 am |
That was of course meant to be ‘Thankyou’ at the end there :)
Stephen Bedard // April 17, 2008 at 5:28 am |
Thank you Alex for your comments. As a former Jehovah’s Witness, I have a question for you. I know that only those who are among the 144,000 are allowed to receive communion at the annual celebration. How does one prove that they belong to this select group and meet the neccesary criteria? Any help would be appreciated.
Alex Reynolds // April 17, 2008 at 7:51 pm |
You are welcome Stephen. Conversations such as these are of great interest to me. I like nothing more than a good debate, but only if the debaters remain rational and can back up what they are claiming is proof.
Regarding your question. Please bare in mind I left the Witnesses the day after my sixteenth birthday, which unfortunately was over 15 yeas ago so my knowledge cannot be taken as fact.
Firstly, you refer to it as communion. I don’t remember it ever being referred to as that and for some reason hearing it referred to using that term strikes me as incorrect for some reason. Once again I may be mistaken.
The topic of the 144,000 was of great interest to me during my time in the Witnesses. When I asked that very same question (How do you know who the chosen people are?) my bible studies teacher answered that ‘they know in their hearts. They are full with the love of God and feel their appointment in that select group’. Of course being a teenager at that time her answer rankled. How are those people any better or more deserving than me? I love God. I worship Him. I’m a good person etc etc. Luckily my congregation had one of these exalted people so I was able to witness this firsthand. Even with my teenage self-absorbed attitude I was able to feel the aura of contentment that surrounded this person. He truly was a kind, decent man and his love for God was unquestionable. I was also happy to see that he wasn’t an Elder. Anyone could become part of the chosen! I still had a chance! When I told my feelings to my studies teacher she said that the 144,000 were already selected, whether born yet of not, and that I could not be a part of it. I could still enjoy life in paradise as a perfect human though so be happy with that. Of course she didn’t say it in a mean way, she was a sweet and loving person, but I was still stunned. I questioned her on the logic of this belief. How can an imperfect human, living in an imperfect world, be guaranteed a place in the 144,000 before they are even born? Do they have some sort of anti-corruption clause? She honestly told me that she didn’t have the answers I sought and referred me to one of the Elders for guidance. Before my meeting with the Elder I prepared a list of questions, ranging from minor (and kind of petty but remember – teenager!) ones – ‘Why can’t we wear denim jeans to sunday worship?’ – to the major – How can God have always existed? What existed before God? (Revelations 22.13 – ‘I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I have been and always shall be.’) and of course ‘How can a member of the 144,000 be selected for this honor before they are even born?. To his credit he didn’t dismiss any of my questions, treating each one as important. But his answers became increasingly evasive. He often put it down to faith, which I remember really rankled, especially with the major ones. The Witnesses pride themselves on their ability to ‘prove’ any question with quotes from the bible. The Elder’s inability, or reluctance, to do so with my questions was probably the beginning of my decline of belief and led to my ever increasing need to question every facet of the religion. Some future revelations and actions were the final straw and I left the church. The mystery of the 144,000 was never fully explained.
As mentioned at the beginning of my post I have not been a member of the Jehovah’s Witness for many years. If I have incorrectly stated current Witness belief then I apologize and welcome any corrections from current members. I would especially appreciate answers to my questions from years ago:
How can God have always existed? What existed before God?
‘How can a member of the 144,000 be selected for this honor before they are even born?
Thankyou
Stephen Bedard // April 17, 2008 at 8:06 pm |
Thanks again for sharing. I appreciate your balanced viewpoint. Just out of curiousity, now that you have left the Jehovah’s Witnesses, how would you describe your spirituality?
As for what existed before God, I would suggest you pick up a copy of C.S. Lewis’ Mere Christianity. He has an interesting section about God and time. He suggests that God does not exist in time and therefore it is meaningless to talk of a time before God as God is in no time. It is not easy to understand. But then think of the big bang. There was a super dense mass of matter that exploded and caused the universe. Where did that matter come from and what happened before? Scientists might say that time did not begin until the big bang. The point is that it is impossible to conceive of a time before the beginning of the universe, with or without God. What we do know is that the universe does exist and we just need to decide if it happened with or without God. Does that help?
Alex Reynolds // May 20, 2008 at 11:18 pm |
Sorry for the delayed response.
My spirituality is not easy to describe. I am finding it hard to put into words. Let me give you a little background.
When I was 2 years old my younger sister died. As i’m sure you can understand that upset my mother immensely and she was sunk in a sea of depression for many years. One of the ways she fought against the depression was with an almost childlike belief that God would help her, as long as she found the ‘true’ religion. This began her trek through the majority of ‘major’ religions available, everything from Buddhism, Judaism, Mormons etc, and the Witnesses. Of course we (my brother and I) were dragged along for the ride. She eventually settled on the Witnesses. This didn’t sit well with us. Not because we considered them any better or worse than any of the others, but more out of the need to distance ourselves from what we considered her irrational belief that the Witnesses could wave their hands and solve all her problems and grief. We were part of the Witnesses together for around 3 years but my brother and I left on my 16th birthday (I spent my birthday at one of their week-end long Conventions and I was very angry about it). She continued and as far as I know she is still a member (we haven’t spoken for a couple of years).
But years later I have learnt to appreciate my tour of those various religions. Those experiences combined with my own research later has developed my current beliefs.
So back to your question. I think it will be easier if I put my thoughts down in list form. If anyone reading them has an opinion I would love to hear it, but please keep in mind that these are my opinions and we are all entitled to have our own. I do not require a personal attack. Thankyou.
I don’t belong to any organized religion. I have an aversion to them based mainly on my experiences with the Witnesses and Mormons, as well as research into the Catholic Church. People don’t need an organization of flawed human beings telling them the right way to worship. If you love God then all the best. If you prefer to call Him Allah then once again peace to you. If your act of worship is getting naked and dancing among the tress then go for it!
I believe that God exists, but more as an energy that flows through the universe. Does He/It have a conscious? Yes, but is it omnipresent? I don’t know. I am a firm believer in Karma.
I believe in both Creation and Evolution. I believe in the Big Bang, but I believe it was a controlled explosion, not an accident, and that it is progressing in an evolutionary manner.
I believe that Jesus existed and that he was an extraordinary man. But was he the son of God? In the sense that we all are the children of God then absolutely. But the ‘actual’ Son of God, I don’t think so. The reasons are many and would constitute a whole different post.
I’m not sure what the above classes me as and like I said it has been hard putting it all into words. Any feedback is appreciated. Thankyou.
Stephen Bedard // May 21, 2008 at 6:54 pm |
I respect the fact that you have retained an interest in God and spirituality despite a difficult religious upbringing. Too many people give up based on what they have seen other people do with religion. You are very obviously open to many ideas although hesitant to embrace organized religion. I can understand that. One of the things that I would challenge you with is the difficulty of taking from so many traditions, especially those that are mutually exclusive. I would encourage you to look again at Jesus, not from the perspective of organized religion but from the gospels themselves. What does Jesus seem to say about the nature of God? I encourage you to keep searching. Faith is a journey and we all need to persist through the many difficulties and uncertainties that we encounter. Keep searching!
Mary // August 15, 2008 at 1:31 am |
Thanks for sharing :)
I too am searching. I believe in Yahweh and Jesus and the holy spirit. Right now I am doing some research into the Bible. I want the most accurate translation I can find. It’s pretty difficult since I only understand English.
During the course of my research, I have come across some startling bits of information. To say the least I am very frightened for those who have translated these newer bible versions.
So far, it appears that the King James Version comes the closest but it is not without concern.
Does anyone have any feedback regarding Bible translations ?
Thank you for your input ! :)
Is it just me or does it seem that Christianity today seems to be very similar to politics of today? Different parties, different ideals, different agendas ???
Just a thought. In my research I have read a lot of mud slinging between protestants and catholics and JW’s etc. etc. etc. Kinda reminds me of todays presidential candidates.
Just a thought :)
Stephen Bedard // August 15, 2008 at 8:43 am |
Keep on searching! Yes it is unfortunate that religious people can get nasty. What we have in common is that we are all human and that means we have a tendency to get defensive and overeact. We need to judge religious movements by their core values and not some of the mistakes that their followers have made.
It is a great question about Bible translations. I think I understand your hesitation about newer Bible translations. There are passages in the King James Version that are not found in newer translations. Does this mean that newer translations have deliberately left them out for theological reasons? I too have done research into this. The problem is not with new translations but with the Greek manuscripts that the KJV is based on. The Greek text that was used was based on much later texts and does not take into account some earlier ones that were available at the time and definitely does not include some excellant manuscripts that have been discovered since. Unfortunately over time there have been little changes and additions that have been added to the texts. Some were mistakes and some were notes by scribes that happened to get inserted into the texts. But because of the large quanity and early nature of the texts we now have, we are able to reconstruct the earliest form of the text. That earliest form does not include a number of passages in the KJV. Remember we want the most accurate Bible, not the longest Bible. If you are looking for a good modern translation of the Bible I would recommend the English Standard Version, New Revised Standard Version or Todays New International Version.
Liiz // April 2, 2009 at 5:03 pm |
Alex with your journey through all you religions I could understand why its hard to belive that Jesus is the son of GOD. But it does state that plenty of times in the old bibles and in the newer bibles. I hope you can come to belive this.;)
Randy Nagel // May 1, 2009 at 9:48 pm |
Dear sincere truth seekers,
As to being qualified to speak about truth and spiritual matters one does not need:
About Stephen J. Bedard
My name is Stephen Bedard and I am the pastor of Woodford Baptist Church and First Baptist Church, Meaford. I am a graduate of McMaster Divinity College with a Master of Divinity, Master of Theology (New Testament and Early Judaism) and Master of Arts (Biblical Studies). I live with my beautiful wife Amanda and our four wonderful children on the shores of Georgian Bay in Meaford Ontario. My passion is to present the truth of the Bible in an understandable and relevant way. I am the co-author of Unmasking the Pagan Christ: An Evangelical Response to the Cosmic Christ Idea and the author of Finding a New Land: From Canaan to the Resurrection.
as credentials. It is written at Acts 4:13,14 as quoted first from The Mew World Translation Of The Holy Scriptures and then the 1611 King James Version from which I initially percieved the truths contained in the Holy Scriptures:
(Acts 4:13)
“13 Now when they beheld the outspokenness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were men unlettered and ordinary, they got to wondering. And they began to recognize about them that they used to be with Jesus; 14 and as they were looking at the man that had been cured standing with them, they had nothing to say in rebuttal.”
KJV 1611
“Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.”
Jesus Christ was annointed with Holy Spirit and these men were also.
A striking example, of which many are possible to be cited, of misleadings by some persons through the centuries since that time is at Psalms 110:1 as I will quote from the 1611 King James Version and in connection with the Tetragrammaton as defined in a good dictionary ask readers to reason on the verse as to the first instance of the wrod LORD in al capital letters and the second occurence of the word Lord where the letters are not all capitals but only the L:
1611 KJV
(Psalms 110:1)
“The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.”
and now from The New World Translation Of The Holy Scriptures with continued consideration of the definition of the Tetragrammaton:
(Psalms 110:1)
The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is:
“Sit at my right hand
Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”
This is a Messianic prophecy and just one instance of truth being distorted by misuse of words.
Romans 12:17,18 also states (NWT) :
“17 Return evil for evil to no one. Provide fine things in the sight of all men. 18 If possible, as far as it depends upon YOU, be peaceable with all men.”
I and all witnesses of Jehovah (Isaiah 43:10-12) try to apply those words in OUR lives and so only ask paople to reason (or think logically) on the Holy Bible.
I am one of Jehovah’s Witnesses and as al persons have fallen short of perfection and for any improper words that are not completely accurate I beg forgiveness of the readers and also OUR merciful heavenly father; Jehovah.
Warm Christian Love,
Randy Nagel
Stephen Bedard // May 2, 2009 at 2:48 am |
Randy, I am not sure what you are trying to get at. I do not provide my background as authority to be submitted to but just as helpful information as I introduce myself to my readers. You do not need seminary education to have knowledge of the Bible.
I also do not see where the disagreement is. I agree with your interpretation of Psalm 110. You are correct that LORD in the Old Testament is YHWH and Lord is adonai. I also agree that Psalm 110:1 is a messianic prophecy.
I also am trying to follow Romans 12:17-18. That is my goal. I do not try and insult anyone but to provide information to further conversation on spiritual matters.
Thanks for your time in responding.
isaiah30v8 // May 27, 2009 at 5:25 pm |
I think many households in predominantly Christian Nations do not openly welcome Jehovah’s Witnesses because their door to door ministry seems designed to mislead the housholder into beleiving the same lies that Satan told in the Garden of Eden.
If you read the following newsletter you should see the parallels to the Edenic Sin:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/11566728/Jehovahs-Witnesses-and-Satans-lie
They really are like Satan dressed in a nice suit and tie knocking on your door!
No wonder so many Nations have banned them!
Stephen Bedard // May 28, 2009 at 5:15 am |
I have talked with many Jehovah’s Witnesses and have never had the impression that any of them intended to deceive any one. I am sure the majority definitely believe what they are preaching. I may disagree with them but I definitely think most JWs are sincere. If I was to put them anywhere in the Eden story it would not be as the serpent but as Eve.
Randy Nagel // May 28, 2009 at 8:57 am |
Dear sincere truth seekers,
I was raised in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. Never knew what Missouri synod meant or was. For thet matter I did not care as I knew what I was doing was what my parents wanted and at the tiime was satised with that but also, now I know why, because of what is written in the Bible at Matthew 5:3 the (a) part where it is written and inspired by God it is as quoted here from both the NWT (New World Translation Of The Holy Scriptures and the 1611 King James Version):
(Matthew 5:3)
“Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, ”
& Now from KJV 1611 which by the way my Grnandparents bought me as a Christmas present in 1960 and is the Bible in which I discerned that all I had been taught was not the truth contained in the Holy Scriptures even as the name of God does appear in 4 verses: Exodus 6:3 ; Isaiah 12:2 : Isaiah 26:4 : 7 Psalms 83:18:
(Matthew 5:3)
5:3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit:”
& now from another translation of the Holy Bible which there are many at this web site: http://www.geocities.com/onlinebibletranslations/?20092
(Matthew 5:3) – International Standard Version
3“How blessed are those who are destitute in spirit, ”
The meaning of the verse seems to indicate more accurately expressed in modern English language as is expressed in the NWT that you are or would be in a better spititual state if you understood that a lack of siritual knowledge.
Just a first for instance iwhat in the 1611 KJV ids written at Acts 2:31:
2:31 “He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.”
I was never taught that Jesus went to Hell in any of the faiths I was exposed to by association at other places of worship with family and friends. Here though the word “left” is used in asssociation with Jesus and hell. Left being the past tense of leave and to leave someplace you must first go there I was intriguedd and puzzeled. Well going to my trusted old friend “A Standard College Dictionary” that my DAD bought me when I was excepted into a prestigious Engineering School in 1970, and looking up the word “hell” I find this definition: 1. In various religions the abode of the dead…
I then saw using logic that Jesus did go to the the abode of the dead.
I had it, the dictionary, rebound twice as it is used to helpme and others I reason with to gain knowledge and understanding.
I was 20 years old and had a head on motorcycle acccident and had just been unconscious for 6 weeeks and was next shown two places in the KJV where the condition of the dead is spoken about Eccl 9:5,10 & Psalms 1463,4:
(1611 KJV)
9:5 “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.’
9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
I was ask if while I was in the coma if I felt being stuck with needles or for that matter was conscious of anything what went on. My responsewas, “No I was uncoscious.” It was then ointed out to me in verese 5 “the dead know not any thing” and it was as is scales started to fall off my eyes. Then in verse 10 it was pointed out that it was to “the grave, whither thou goest.”
I began in a large way to see Bible truth and not tradition of man.
While we had the dictionary out I was directed to look up and did the word “tetragrammaton”:n. In the Hebrew texts the group of four letters (JHVH, JHWH, YHVH, YHWH) representing the name ofGod, that is considered to be ineffable. The common transliteration Jehovah is the result of theTetragrammatonwith the vowel pointsof Adonai “my Lord”that is subtituted in reading the name.
As I laid the foundation in my first post about the difference in LORD and Lord in Psalms 110:1,2 one can effectively reason that, substituted means you put something were something else once occupied a position, so Psalms 110:1.2 id properly translated Jehovah says to my Lord in the Messianic prophesy and at the over 7,000 times elsewhere in the Bible where all letters of the word lord or LORD appear it is substituted for what the dictionary, which is a very good dictionary too, says Jehovah should appear as LORD has been substitued.
It is as if as quoted from the (NWT) at Mark 7:7,8 says,
7 ”It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach as doctrines commands of men.’ 8 Letting go the commandment of God, YOU hold fast the tradition of men.”
Warmest Christian Love,
Randy Nagel
PS ~ Please go to the site:
http://www.jw.org/index.html?option=QrYQZRQVNlBBX
Where you can download and listen to the book of 224 pages “What Does The Bible Really Teach.”
or to obtain a personal copy you may go to this site ad click on the publications tab and follow the instructions at the bottom of the page:
http://watchtower.org/
Have a look around for some very informative material particularly at the Index where the are over 600 articles on a wide variety of interestin and informative subjects or using the search strip. There is also infowmation available in 376 different languages and 37 sign languages
Randy Nagel // May 28, 2009 at 9:18 am |
Dear isaiah30v8,
The lie that Satan told Eve and she was decieved into believing was that if she ate the fruit off the tree of knowledge of good and bad she would not “die.”
It was a lie and bcause of that lie!!!! As Romans 5:12 states from the (NWT)
12 ”That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned—.”
To sin means to miss the mark; or the bullseye which would be to be perfect and Jesus was perfect,no other hunam being has ever lived and been perfect in obediance to Jehovah God’s will or principles, and died as a perfect man to cover the sins of all men who exercise faith in the “propitiatory” sacrifice:
1 John 2:2 from the (NWT)
2 ”And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s. ”
John 8:44 from the NWT:
44 ”YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie].”
Warm Christian Love,
Randy Nagel
Randy Nagel // June 6, 2009 at 5:33 pm |
Dear sincere seekers of truth from the Bible,
The book, “What Does the Bible Really Teach?,” now is available in print online at this url:
http://watchtower.org/e/bh/article_00.htm
Titled and quoted from that page:
What Does the Bible Really Teach?
Is This What God Purposed?
It is very informative and in my mind and heart conveys that the Bible is what it does say what Paul was inspired to write at Hebrews 4:12,13:
Quoted from the New World Translation Of The Holy Scriptures and I invite you to use any other translations of which there are many at the web site I refered to above,
http://www.geocities.com/onlinebibletranslations/?20092
,to compare and gain understanding:
Hebrews 4:12,13
“12 For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints and [their] marrow, and [is] able to discern thoughts and intentions of [the] heart. 13 And there is not a creation that is not manifest to his sight, but all things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of him with whom we have an accounting.”
I find it refreshing, the knowledge that can be gained from study of the Bible and the book as a study aid book, from even the first page the url will take you to from the pictures and scriptures to back up the reasoning upon viewing the pictures on the page combined with the Bible verses.
Warm Christian Love,
Randy Nagel
renee // September 25, 2009 at 6:27 pm |
Please explain to me why the Jeh. Witness bible has capitalized the words YOU and YOUR — I am curious about this
Stephen Bedard // September 25, 2009 at 9:34 pm |
To be honest, I had never noticed that before. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I did a search and discovered that YOU refers to the plural of you. So God loves you as an individual and God loves YOU in reference to your family. Hope that helps.
Randy Nagel // October 3, 2009 at 6:00 pm |
Dear seekers of truth,
To clarify and add emphasis to accurare knowledge one can go to this site – http://jehovah.to
& in particular this page of the site -
http://jehovah.to/exe/translation/advantages.htmand
“Advantages of the New World Translation:
A discussion of its modern language. its uniformity. its careful verb renderings, and its dynamic expression of the inspired Word of God.”
& down to the sub-heading and it is quoted in the text below:
“PLURAL “YOU” INDICATED”
The older English forms of the second person singular, “thee,” “thou,” and “thy,” have been retained in some modern translations in cases where God is being addressed. However, in the languages in which the Bible was written, there was no special form of the personal pronoun for use in address to God, but the same form was used as when addressing one’s fellowman. So the New World Translation has dropped these now sanctimonious usages and employs the normal conversational “you” in all cases. In order to distinguish the second person plural “you” and verbs whose plural number is not readily apparent in English, the words are printed entirely in small capital letters. Often it is helpful to the reader to know whether a given Scripture text refers to “you” as an individual, or to “YOU” as a group of persons, a congregation.
For example, at Romans 11:13 Paul is speaking to the many: “Now I speak to YOU who are people of the nations.” But at Ro 11 verse 17 the Greek changes to the singular “you,” and the application is brought down pointedly to the individual: “However, if some of the branches were broken off but you…were grafted in…” ”
Online Bible
New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures is here:
http://watchtower.org/e/bible/index.htm
1 Tim 2:3-7 as stated in “The New World Translation Of The Ho;y Scriptures ” says:
“3 This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4 whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and
come to an accurate knowledge of truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—[this is] what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times. 7 For the purpose of this witness I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—a teacher of nations in the matter of faith and truth. ”
(come to an accurate knowledge of truth. ) made to stand out by the author of the post!
Randy Nagel // October 3, 2009 at 6:07 pm |
I evidently clicked submit accidently before adding
Warm Christian Love,
Randy Nagel
Randy Nagel // October 3, 2009 at 6:21 pm |
To find out more about what I consider to also be advantages of “The New World Translation Of The Holy Sciptures” one may also go to the page of the site cited above and examine much more on the following subjects with just one click on each of the following subjects:
http://jehovah.to/exe/translation/advantages.htm
Advantages of the New World Translation:
• Is It Grammar or Interpretation?
• Did Jesus Die on a Cross?
• “Between-the-Lines” Translations of the Bible
• The Trinity-Is It Taught in the Bible?
• Why is the same Greek word translated differently?
• William Tyndale’s Bible for the People
• Spiritual Gems From the Christian Greek Scriptures
• Choosing a Modem Bible Translation ”
Also the link in the post above needs correcting as I do make many errrors especially when typing or using a keyboard. Thank you!!!!
Warm Christian Love,
Randy Nagel
Randy Nagel // October 3, 2009 at 6:22 pm |
Here if the correct link:
http://jehovah.to/exe/translation/advantages.htm
Stephen Bedard // October 4, 2009 at 7:36 pm |
Thanks for this. That is the web-site I used to answer the question. Very helpful.
Randy Nagel // October 10, 2009 at 11:31 am |
Dear sincere truth seekers.
To clarify and continue stressing the need to understanding and gain accurate knowledge; it is not that web site cited,
http://jehovah.to/
that is the real source of the knowledge that is expounded upon in these posts but the New World Bible Translation Committee and their desire to render the best sense of words so the New World Translation is as consistent as possible in rendering Hebrew and Greek words into the target language.
The real author of the Bible is Jehovah God for it states at 2 Timothy 3:16.17 as quoted from
The New World Translation Of The Holy Scriptures:
“16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.”
The real source of scriptural knowledge is the true God, Jehovah.
When I saw his name at Psalms 83:18 in the King James Version of the Bible that my Grandparents had bought me as a Christmas present 12/25/1960 rather than viewing the true God and creator of all things as an entity imposing or something other than what he really is, 1 John 4:8 “God is love”, I began to see he wants to be “known” and to be OUR friend.
Jehovah is also translated from the Hebrew and rendered Jehovah in 3 other instances rather than substituting LORD. The divine name is correctly rendered at Exodus 6:3, Isaiah 12:2, & Isaiah 26:4 in the 1611 KJV.
Sincerely and with Christian Love,
Randy Nagel
Stephen Bedard // October 10, 2009 at 12:40 pm |
I have no problem with the name Jehovah (more properly YHWH). However, if that name is so important, why does the New Testament always follow the LXX in presenting it as kurios or Lord?
Randy Nagel // October 10, 2009 at 9:35 pm |
To all who seek understanding and truth,
The dictionary I possess and mentioned in an above post says that the tetragrammaton is variously transliterated in one of four different ways (IHVH, JHWH, JHVH,YHWH) and the following confirms that and is taken from an online encyclopedia and copied and pasted below so as I do not make errors typing as I might sometimes do:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton
“These four letters are usually transliterated from Hebrew as IHVH in Latin, JHWH in German, French and Dutch, and JHVH/YHWH in English. This has been variously rendered as “Yahweh” or even occasionally as “Jehovah”, based on the Latin form of the term.[4] while the Hebrew text does not clearly indicate the omitted vowels. In English translations, it is often rendered in capital and small capital letters as “the LORD”, following Jewish tradition which reads the word as “Adonai” (“Lord”) out of respect for the name of God and the interpretation of the commandment not to take the name of God in vain.” (Italics and boldness of the word tradition added by Randy N agel to emphasize tradition of man being the reason behingd the substitution)
As to why Jehovah is used in The New World Translation Of The Holy Scriptures; the following is a a web site that has on it the appendix 1C found in The New World Translation Of The Holy Scriptures, and if one is sincerely interested in the truth I suggest one can examine the web site so I make no errors or make not errors in my entering the information:
http://www.tetragrammaton.org/lxx_appdx1c.htm
At this point I will take my leave from this discussion and suggest that any further inquiry be done by having a Bible Study with one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in their public ministry that is conducted worldwide as I am well aware that in carrying out the command Jesus gave his disciples is best done in that way and Paul also did in following Jesus’ footsteps closely; 1 Peter 2:21 as stated in The New World Translation Of The Holy Scriptures:
“In fact, to this [course] YOU were called, because even Christ suffered for YOU, leaving YOU a model for YOU to follow his steps closely.”
And to give evidence that Paul conducted his ministry in a house to house manner Acts 20:20 and the other disciples did too as stated at Acts 5:42:
(Acts 20:20) while I did not hold back from telling YOU any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching YOU publicly and from house to house.
(Acts 5:42) And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus.
Taking my leave so as not to become involved in questionings and debating over words!
Sincerely and with Christian Love,
Randy Nagel
Stephen Bedard // October 12, 2009 at 6:11 am |
I am sorry that you are ending the conversation as I do not think it is getting nasty in any way. I do not have a big problem with the name Jehovah although I do not think that it is the best version of YHWH. Yes, German uses a J but in German that has a Y sound. That is not that important. What I want to know is if the name Jehovah is so important, why is it not used in the New Testament?